DUST Search - Why the Forge Gun is 'stronger' than a Railgun Turret

All Channels

General Discussions

Why the Forge Gun is 'stronger' than a Railgun Turret

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 731	Posted - 2013.08.29 23:12:00 - [1] - Quote The Forge is an Anti-Materiel weapon. Instead of making an entire vairable for vehicles like we have with headshots, CCP just raised the damage on the Forge because at those numbers it doesn't matter. If the Forge was scaled to half it's output it would STILL OHK a dropsuit, so seeing as it is so far past dropsuit HP it has it's damage scaled to Vehicle HP. Put simply, the extra damage simulates an armor-piercing principle which the Railgun does not have because it isn't purely designed with an AV focus. If anything, the Railguns need abit of their old splash back as their shape is most likely conducive to shrapnel and shock as opposed to the shear piercing that the Forge has. If I had to make a 'theoretical balance' thing here, the Forge would need less splash, but more damage to make up for the damage lost in the splash explosion. This would reflect the armor and shield piercing abilities trying to be exemplified by the Forge with its 'unrealistically' large output. The Railgun would need a slightly larger splash, but not as damaging as the splash was before it was nerfed(if any of you are old enough to remember those days). This will assist in exemplifying the unspecialized round structure that the Railgun appears to use, as it does less damage to hard targets but can still indirectly 'blap' infantry. In this way the Forge has a focused anti-armor role and can still 'forgesnipe' people with a steady hand, and the Railgun can have its more anti-infantry role with the large splash doing decent damage and resetting shield recharge times, while still packing enough direct fire damage to be a threat to other tanks. LET THE FLAMING COMMENCE.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 731	Posted - 2013.08.29 23:17:00 - [2] - Quote TunRa wrote: Anti-material weapon Thank you, the technical term had eluded me during the original typing. Post edited.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 732	Posted - 2013.08.29 23:32:00 - [3] - Quote General Erick wrote: The Railgun also has more DPS I believe. True, but that has been said til people are blue in the face. I could also say that it has better accuracy, better refire, more ammo, etc, but these technical points have all been gone over before and we still have people crying for nerfs. I'm trying to explain the mechanics behind the two weapons to maybe enlighten people as to why they work the way they do. I have a 1/100 chance of helping the matter, but if I can just get one person educated via reading this post then I suppose I'll have made the issue a little clearer.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 735	Posted - 2013.08.30 00:13:00 - [4] - Quote FATPrincess - XOXO wrote: Forge Gun is a small railgun by principle, so both are anti-material weapons. Your argument is invalid. -XOXO And you are a horrible troll who didn't read the entire post. The difference between the Railgun and the Forge Gun is that the Forge was designed for shear Vehicle killing potential, and as such is made for it in every way down to the very ammunition. Try reading the whole post before you try your 'tanks sooper UP plez buff' crap here.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 735	Posted - 2013.08.30 00:18:00 - [5] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The Forge is an Anti-Materiel weapon. Instead of making an entire vairable for vehicles like we have with headshots, CCP just raised the damage on the Forge because at those numbers it doesn't matter. If the Forge was scaled to half it's output it would STILL OHK a dropsuit, so seeing as it is so far past dropsuit HP it has it's damage scaled to Vehicle HP. Put simply, the extra damage simulates an armor-piercing principle which the Railgun does not have because it isn't purely designed with an AV focus. If anything, the Railguns need abit of their old splash back as their shape is most likely conducive to shrapnel and shock as opposed to the shear piercing that the Forge has. If I had to make a 'theoretical balance' thing here, the Forge would need less splash, but more damage to make up for the damage lost in the splash explosion. This would reflect the armor and shield piercing abilities trying to be exemplified by the Forge with its 'unrealistically' large output. The Railgun would need a slightly larger splash, but not as damaging as the splash was before it was nerfed(if any of you are old enough to remember those days). This will assist in exemplifying the unspecialized round structure that the Railgun appears to use, as it does less damage to hard targets but can still indirectly 'blap' infantry. In this way the Forge has a focused anti-armor role and can still 'forgesnipe' people with a steady hand, and the Railgun can have its more anti-infantry role with the large splash doing decent damage and resetting shield recharge times, while still packing enough direct fire damage to be a threat to other tanks. LET THE FLAMING COMMENCE. Don't forget the turret has faster fire rate, higher dps (net), unlimited ammo, and its strapped to a 5k ehp tank!! HOWEVER with a finite ammo supply I believe this will be addressed by buffing turret damage, making more suited to anti vechile then anti vechile weaponary!! Turret does not have a faster fire rate... their is a 2.5 fire intreval and .3 charge time unlike the proto ishyukone Assault which fires in 1.8 seconds.. Also tanks are tuna cans- its a bad thing to be inside a tank because you are more likely to survive to a duvolle in your militia suit than you are to survive in a tank to a foregun and AV nades... Also the compressed railgun (the good 1) overheats in 3 shots Also- A forgegunner has a much much much90 smaller hit box than a tank. If we have to get into numbers crap here, fine. There are literally hundreds of threads for that ***, but fine. And stop crying about the AV grenades, when did I bring those up? YOU AREN'T ACCOUNTING FOR RELOAD MORON. A decent tanker would never be stupid enough to force his turret into a sieze period, but the Forge must reload every four shots nomatter what. Furthermore, what makes the compressed Railgun 'good'? It has higher damage, less splash, JUST LIKE THE FORGEGUN. You keep choosing the Anti-Materiel Railgun and expecting it to do well in every situation. There is no 'good' one, just one you like more.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 737	Posted - 2013.08.30 00:21:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: DPS is a stat that's far too often overlooked. A railgun can outdps a forge gun. Also notably, a railgun turret is strapped to a HAV which is much more durable than a heavy. The real problems are the ranges, allowing forge guns to lock down entire maps for vehicles, and sometimes not even rendering, and the costs, which are excessive for the turrets. Not so sure tyhat the Forge's problem is range. It is a composite issue of bad rendering and the ability to stand on the highest rooftops that make it an issue. If these two issues were addressed, then we could see how the Forge is truly supposed to handle. Also, the default costs for turretds should be lower, I agree there. I wish the true economy could hit already so people could set prices, but until then we are at CCPs mercy.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 740	Posted - 2013.08.30 00:37:00 - [7] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: This is such a well put and informative post...but dammit, my dropship needs to live! Your derpship needs about 8 kinds of buff, so don't feel bad. I am mearly pointing out the reason why the Forge seems more powerful than the Rail at a passing glance, all these Tankers and AVers are just abusing the thread as another place to have a slapfight. Take a +1 and spread the word of the OP that didn't have anything to do with the whiners that followed into it.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 740	Posted - 2013.08.30 00:52:00 - [8] - Quote ladwar wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: General Erick wrote: The Railgun also has more DPS I believe. True, but that has been said til people are blue in the face. I could also say that it has better accuracy, better refire, more ammo, etc, but these technical points have all been gone over before and we still have people crying for nerfs. I'm trying to explain the mechanics behind the two weapons to maybe enlighten people as to why they work the way they do. I have a 1/100 chance of helping the matter, but if I can just get one person educated via reading this post then I suppose I'll have made the issue a little clearer. not really the dps on rails is pretty similar to that of current SL and assault forge at 800-850~ w/o dam skills or dam mods. the assault forge actually has slightly more DPS then rails. but with this new buff to the SL it'll have a DPS of around 1400~ to be higher then even proto scattered blasters w/ a 10% damage mod at optimal range. This thread is not about the Swarm launcher, but I thank you for providing the information on the Forge and Rail having nigh equivalent DPS. Furthermore, if I had to weigh in on Swarms I'd say they should need a longer reload speed, making them have a role as having frontload but not DPS. I also heard that they were nerfing explosives in general due to an accident in programming that made them 10% too damaging to armor and shields, but I haven't seen a bluepost about it yet.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 740	Posted - 2013.08.30 00:57:00 - [9] - Quote ladwar wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Why the Forge Gun is 'stronger' than a Railgun Turret'' Because you have to buy the FG and the turret is there for free? maybe? AUR suit mauler comes w/ a forge gun... nice try bud but no. and the FG used to be a free fit w/ a class i don't remeber its name any more. The Forge was never a free fitting, it was always the Swarm Launcher. Also, the Mauler doesn't come with a Forge Gun, the Forge is part of the fitting that you pay for when you buy the Mauler FITTING. Not to say I agree with CHECK, but I just hated to see lad's inaccuracy.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 740	Posted - 2013.08.30 00:58:00 - [10] - Quote Ankoku Daishogun wrote: Could you explain to me why grenades are 'stronger' than small missiiles. Shaped charges, designed solely for Anti Materiel purposes. Also, no need for guiding or propulsion systems. Furthermore it has far inferior range. I do personbally believe they need a slight nerf, to be made alongside an LAV HP nerf, but I'd prefer if we stayed on topic here.

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 740	Posted - 2013.08.30 01:05:00 - [11] - Quote ladwar wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: ladwar wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Why the Forge Gun is 'stronger' than a Railgun Turret'' Because you have to buy the FG and the turret is there for free? maybe? AUR suit mauler comes w/ a forge gun... nice try bud but no. and the FG used to be a free fit w/ a class i don't remeber its name any more. The Forge was never a free fitting, it was always the Swarm Launcher. Also, the Mauler doesn't come with a Forge Gun, the Forge is part of the fitting that you pay for when you buy the Mauler FITTING. Not to say I agree with CHECK, but I just hated to see lad's inaccuracy. it was a starter fit depending on the class you chose to play as back in closed beta. the class had a sniper, a medic, a heavy w/ a FG, and a assault class but i can't right remember what they called them. i think it was Sentinel class but i don't really remember the name but these where on top of the normal starter fits we have now. maybe the enforcer class but w/e its been long removed. I do not remember such a class myself, but the Forge Gun was far weaker then, and Tanks were far more powerful, so it does make sense. And both could shoot an MCC out of the sky in minutes :v
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 740	Posted - 2013.08.30 01:07:00 - [12] - Quote FATPrincess - XOXO wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Ankoku Daishogun wrote: Could you explain to me why grenades are 'stronger' than small missiiles. Shaped charges, designed solely for Anti Materiel purposes. Also, no need for guiding or propulsion systems. Furthermore it has far inferior range. I do personbally believe they need a slight nerf, to be made alongside an LAV HP nerf, but I'd prefer if we stayed on topic here. It's anti- material... Material MATERIAL -XOXO ACTUALLY, it is Anti-Materiel. We get the terms Anti-Materiel and Anti-Personnel from another language, hence the alternate spelling. Here's a Wiki link for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-materiel_rifle THE MORE YOU KNOW!
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 741	Posted - 2013.08.30 01:22:00 - [13] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: General Erick wrote: The Railgun also has more DPS I believe. 2000 compressed particle cannon =/= 3000 Wiyrkomi breach forge gun DPS is Damage per Second, not Damage per Shot. The Breach has the worst DPS.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 741	Posted - 2013.08.30 01:28:00 - [14] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: YOU AREN'T ACCOUNTING FOR RELOAD MORON. A decent tanker would never be stupid enough to force his turret into a sieze period, but the Forge must reload every four shots nomatter what. Furthermore, what makes the compressed Railgun 'good'? It has higher damage, less splash, JUST LIKE THE FORGEGUN. You keep choosing the Anti-Materiel Railgun and expecting it to do well in every situation. There is no 'good' one, just one you like more. Hmm.... let's see. You are telling us to ignore killshots, ok, fine, I can see why I should not fire the last shot (that would kill the enemy rail tank) because I would overheat. No, wait.. actually I can't see why... Railguns are terribad against infantry and the best one against vehicles is definetely the compressed one, it does not matter how much damage you can deal in one minute, it matters how much damage you can deal in seconds. Also you have to be terribad forge gunner to not make those 4 shots count. 90% of the time I am dead if I let the forge gunner unload those 4 shots on me one after another. But 90% of the time I will live and get away (or alternatively get close) if I take 4 railgun hits one after another. If you fire all the railgun shots, you overheat and sieze. If you play it smart, you get more shots in less time by managing the heat level of the gun. You can also equip heatsinks to allow yourself more shots before overheat or, here's just a thought, use a Railgun with more DPS but less Alpha. Yaknow, any other Railgun, which as you stated yourself, can get more than the three shots the Compressed can. Also, you forget that the splash damage of the other Railguns also hits the tank you fire at, so the splash that you give up with the Compressed is only worth it if you are JUUUUUUUST clipping the edge of the tank. So once again you are wrong. And if that last shot will get a kill but overheat your gun, go for it. That is a judgement call. If it won't kill him, just hurt him and leave you bareassed to his counterattack, don't take it. I didn't think I had to spell it out, but I took your limited intelligence for granted.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 741	Posted - 2013.08.30 01:29:00 - [15] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Gods Architect wrote: how many times are we going to hit the forge gun argument, its quite old I hate to agree with a SVER, but he is right But to actually respond, a railgun has more than 3,000 HP. A forge gun has to support a suit with (sometimes) less than half what a railgun has. I just realized this thread is about vehicle rail guns. Please disregard everything I have said thus far. Happened to me too, OP wasn't clear enough... Fixed. Happy?